Plan for Long-Term Care, Protect Your Nest Egg

Ep. 33 – Plan for Long-Term Care, Protect Your Nest Egg

Ep. 33 – Plan for Long-Term Care, Protect Your Nest Egg

Long-term care and estate planning are two financial life planning areas that everyone can benefit from.  Subscribe to my newsletter.

But it is even more so a woman’s issue.

Why? Two reasons. Women are oftentimes the caregiver for their spouses. And because women frequently outlive their spouses, there is no one to care for them.

Although today’s podcast is intended for everyone, without a doubt, women need to pay close attention and plan for their own care and successful outcome.

Liz Wallace, estate planning and specifically, elder law attorney with Agile Elder Law, joins me, Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, your Financial Planner Tri-Cities, in this discussion. We are talking about estate planning with careful consideration given to planning for asset protection and long-term care.

We are hosting a free webinar this month, How to Protect Your Nest Egg and Pay for Long-Term Care. May 28th 2020 at 5:15 PM . Register here
This is a complex issue with many variables. I hope you will listen in and join our webinar.

Subscribe and watch this podcast on my YouTube channel.  As always, tune in to hear all the details.

In this episode you’ll learn more about:

  1. Why do most Americans not complete their will and estate plans?
  2. What are important consequences for not completing estate planning documents?
  3. How does estate planning even relate to long-term care planning?
  4. 2 common mistakes you see people make.
  5. What are risks of not having proper planning if you experience a long-term care event?
  6. What are key steps people should take to protect themselves, their assets and their loved ones?



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Full podcast episode transcript.

[00:00:00] Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. It’s Angie here, Certified Financial Planner, and I want to welcome you to the financial side of life podcast. So today I enjoined by Liz Wallace. Say hello to our listeners, Liz.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:00:13] Hello everyone.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:00:15] is an estate planning attorney with Agile Elder Law right here in the Tri-Cities serving clients around Washington. And as that name implies, she specializes in elder law. And we’ll talk a little bit more about what that even is. So, I wanted to let you know that I’m hosting a estate planning webinar at the end of the month.

It’s May 28th, 2020 to be exact, and it’s a free

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:00:40] educational

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:00:41] webinar. So Liz is my featured guest and she will be talking on how to protect your nest egg. And pay for long-term care. And we’ll definitely get into that as well today. So I’d like to welcome Liz to the podcast. Welcome, Liz. Thanks for joining me.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:00:57] Thank you, Angie.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:00:58] So great to have here, and we [00:01:00] have a lot to go over. I worked out a nice list of questions, so, but I always like to start by, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, your firm, and what is elder law.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:01:13] Sure. So as you mentioned, I am an attorney at Agile Elder Law, and elder law involves several things.

Estate planning is one of them. The difference between elder law and traditional estate planning, is that the planning I do and that my firm does, and that elder law attorneys everywhere do, has an eye towards protecting assets and getting long-term care paid for later and making sure that  when you do your estate planning, you’re looking at all the contingencies.

Are there things that could happen while you’re still alive and not just when you pass away?

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:01:48] Okay. Exactly. Okay. So that’s where the long-term care part comes in, for sure.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:01:54] Okay. And, you know, I’ve read, I don’t, I don’t ever quite fully [00:02:00] trust statistics, but I’ve read that somewhere in the range of 50% or half of Americans. Do you have a better statistic.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:02:07] I think that statistic is probably correct all across America. Certainly in different demographics. As you get older, more people have wills, but definitely it’s, it’s still not a big enough percentage.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:02:18] Right? So half approximately half of Americans do not have proper estate planning documents.

They don’t have a will. or maybe it’s even out of date because things do change over time. I’m curious, why do you think that people don’t get this done? What’s the holdup.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:02:34] I think there are two reasons, two big reasons, one of them is. As humans, none of us really like to face our own mortality. And so, estate planning means talking about things.

you know, later in life, things that can happen when you become incapacitated. And of course, when you pass away. And that can be a big block for people because talking about those things, planning for those things can, Not feel so good. Yeah. So that I think is one of the blocks. [00:03:00] I think the other one is that people do not realize that estate planning can protect you while you’re still alive, and it can really protect assets for your loved ones.

And for you, if you, if you do it and you plan ahead, but people don’t have enough information about what really can benefit them and why they should do these things earlier on in life. And so I think it’s a combination of those two reasons that people just don’t do this or don’t do it in time. Okay.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:03:30] And so what would be some of the consequences for not getting your estate planning documents in place?

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:03:39] So there’s, there are a wealth of things that can happen. I’m just going to cover a couple of them. One of the main things that can happen in Washington, particularly for married couples, is that we lose a lot of the benefits for asset protection that come with doing the right kind of estate planning ahead of time.

[00:04:00] And there, there are lots of ins and outs of what that, what can be done in an estate plan in order to protect assets while you’re alive and especially for the surviving spouse. That in that is, It’s a really, really big deal, especially for married couples in Washington. another thing that can happen is if you don’t do estate planning for the documents you need while you’re still alive.

And you become incapacitated and you didn’t plan for that. And then we have to get the court involved in order to get someone to take care of your affairs. strangers, judges, those are the people making decisions about your life rather than the people you would want to be making those decisions. So I do see that sometimes too, where.

I really want to help someone, but they didn’t have the right documentation in place. We have to start with a court process that’s expensive and time consuming. And so that can also eat away at things. And then there are also consequences of what happens with your property when you pass away, if you didn’t do any planning ahead of time.

So you [00:05:00] do see kind of those popular, you know, really famous rich people who didn’t do any planning. And then their estate, who knows where it goes. And it takes years and years and years to figure that out. Obviously those are extreme cases. Most of us don’t have the kind of money or property that, that some of those folks do. However,

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:05:16] that doesn’t seem to matter sometimes.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:05:22] If you don’t plan, you may have unintended, you may think, Oh, well, I want my property to go to this person or to this person. And so I’ve told everyone that, and it’ll be fine, but you didn’t do any actual planning and you didn’t do any documents.

And then you pass away. And maybe you have an estranged child who you didn’t want to get anything from your estate, but they’re going to get a share of it. Or maybe, your spouse remarries later and you didn’t do any planning together. And then that. That spouse is your spouse, his new spouse gets everything when they die instead of your kids getting it.

So there, yes, unintentional disinheritance. So [00:06:00] there are a lot of consequences. estate planning is just essential for if you want to have a voice in what’s going to happen both while you’re alive and when you pass away. Estate planning needs to be done

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:06:11] So when I, when I said it doesn’t seem to matter, what I meant by that is the dollar amounts.

Cause I was reading, my dad likes to share stories with me that he, he listens to a lot. And he was telling me about Paul Newman, for example. And he has a very interesting story with his

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:06:26] organization. Newman’s Own, you know, the spaghetti sauce. and all the millions and millions of dollars that were really designed to give away to charity and his, his daughters were involved. And anyway, the story.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:06:42] Seems to not go as how it had been intended. And so that those are big, big dollars. But for a lot of us, like you said, don’t have that big kind of dollar. And we think that it might not matter, but in my experience, it doesn’t matter the dollar amount. It could be a smaller estate or a really big estate.

[00:07:00] People kind of want what they think they’re entitled to, or there are, there is still a lot of room for, Feelings to get hurt, people not doing their job, money, money that is expected, that doesn’t go where it’s supposed to go, those kinds of things. So, it is important, I think, for people to tackle these things while they’re alive, especially with that, aspect.

Not to, not to mention the long term care aspect or the

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:07:24] benefits to you while you’re living, but at your death, you know, to make sure your money goes where you intended to go and how

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:07:32] so what would you. I would just want to add, in fact, I think that folks who have, Not such big estates are the people who most need the assets protected because they are the people who are most likely to be impacted by a big event like long-term care where their money can run out.

And so, especially people who have some assets but don’t have millions and millions of dollars, those people probably need planning even more than millionaires do.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:07:58] What kind of asset [00:08:00] level are you talking about when you talk about, you know, not so much or, or a lot, what’s kind of that sweet

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:08:05] spot. so people who maybe own their home, maybe have, some retirement assets worth a couple hundred thousand dollars.

maybe less than that, maybe more than that. I would say everyone should do planning, but I would say that the folks who, who do not have several million dollars are the folks who are most at risk for when they don’t plan, for losing everything that they have and that they’ve worked for. Okay.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:08:30] So what would you say are some of the things, one, maybe two things that you see over and over again as mistakes that people make?

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:08:39] One of those is, especially in Washington living trusts or a big, big, Problem for married folks especially. And so, when people get some pieces of information, especially maybe from someone that they know from another state where processes are different, then they’ll make snap [00:09:00] judgments about what they should do for their estate planning.

Living trusts are problematic in Washington state for almost everyone, particularly, and especially for married couples. you lose a lot of the benefit  you can get by planning if you put stuff into a living trust in Washington, and people don’t do that because. they’re not doing it because they are somehow not paying attention or don’t know what they’re doing.

They heard from someone, you need this thing to avoid probate. This is how you need to do your planning. Doing trusts is, is really beneficial. In other states that might be true, in Washington is not. And so not doing state specific, talking to a state specific attorney about what matters in that state and what the best ways are to protect them, I think is one of the biggest.

mistakes people make. I don’t want to say mistakes. Planning ahead is never a mistake, but maybe how we’re not doing the best planning that it can do. So I would say, first and foremost, living trusts in Washington state. If anyone says you need one, make sure you [00:10:00] talk to an elder law attorney first.

The other thing is, Not planning ahead early enough. A lot of times I see people who maybe have young children and they think, well, maybe I’ll do some estate planning to protect my kids and then I’ll change it later to, to have something different when I’m older. My kids need this thing now and we need something different later.

And not understanding that there’s a continuum you can have, you can do planning that will benefit you when you have young kids. And also when you’re older and. People always assume that they’re going to be able to change that stuff later. And one of the things I see all the time is people who lose capacity before making those changes.

People who have a will that’s 25 30 years old, and they always thought that they would redo it when they’re older and then they get dementia or they, or they get an accident or they have a medical condition, something that makes it so that they no longer have the capacity to change their estate planning to benefit [00:11:00] them and their lives now.

And so, that’s one thing I see all the time. People who don’t start early enough doing the kind of intense estate planning that you really can do to protect yourself later. Okay.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:11:12] And something, you know, I was doing a little reading about this topic and something that I came across, which was  on I would call it a will making site where it asks the question, but do you really need a trust?

And it says Washington does not use the uniform probate code, which simplifies the probate process. So it may be a good idea for you to make a living trust to avoid Washington’s complex probate process. That’s what it says.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:11:40] Interesting. So there’s a, and there are a lot of misleading sites like that, and, and, and people who, who make their living selling trusts as well.

in fact, Washington does. We use the uniform probate code to some extent, but in fact, we have a very simplified and useful [00:12:00] probate process here in Washington. We do not have a complex process. we have a very inexpensive, very quick, very useful non-problematic probate process in Washington. And so that’s just not.

That’s not good information. One of the things to always be careful of is anything online that says, you know, you don’t need a lawyer to do this sort of estate planning. I encourage anyone to, to at least talk to a lawyer. Even if you, if you want to do your paperwork some other way, or you believe that you’ve got everything set up, talk to a lawyer, talk to an elder law attorney, preferably about what you have and what it really will do.

Rather than relying on those sort of online resources and do your own wills,

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:12:45] are our consultations often a no cost or is there a cost to them? How does it normally work?

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:12:52] Many elder law attorneys do charge for consultations. I do not. So I prefer to have a consultation with someone to sit down, [00:13:00] review their documents and give.

Then some suggestions about their specific situation because everyone’s situation is different, and estate planning, just like every other kind of law is not one size fits all. Yeah. So for me, I like to sit down with someone and say, you know, here’s, here’s what you have. Here’s how that works. Here’s what you could do to benefit yourself.

Or maybe you have everything in place and you don’t need to change anything. and I think that kind of transparency and honesty is the only way we get good information out to people. So I do not charge for consultations for that reason. not that I. Not that I advocate one way or another for other attorneys, but that’s how, that’s how I work. Okay.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:13:41] So as I mentioned, we are doing an estate planning webinar, which again is May 28th, 2020, and it’s in the evening 5:15. It’s free. It’s educational. the way we’re structuring this is there will be a bit of a presentation, but, people who attend will be able to ask [00:14:00] questions. So there will be time. for Q and. A, it’s, it’s interactive to some degree. So we invite you to register for that. You can do that on my website, or on my Facebook, on my Facebook page as well, which is, Avea Financial Planning. So, Specifically, we’re talking about how to protect your nest egg and pay for long-term care.

So let’s talk a little bit more about that part of this, this part of elder law. How does it even relate? How does the estate planning even relate to long-term care?

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:14:34] Two ways. Again, as I keep kind of coming back to, estate planning is important for when you’re alive and when you pass away. And both of those are related to long-term care.

Now for single folks or widows or widowers, they may have a different need. and a different plan for paying for long-term care. Okay. As far as estate planning goes, for someone who is a [00:15:00] single person and how it’s tied to long-term care is in the preparation of documentation. So you want to make sure that your powers of attorney, for example, really allow a lot of flexibility in, in strategies and in allowing the person that you chose to help you with things.

To do whatever needs to be done to make sure your long-term care gets paid for without you going broke. And that may be, VA planning and maybe Medicaid planning. It may be long-term care insurance. It may be just privately paying. There are various different ways that we can, figure out how to pay for long-term care without going broke.

All of those, probably 60 to 70% of my clients who need that kind of planning cannot come to me themselves. Because they have either a lack of capacity or a lack of, ability to come into my office and maybe they, and so they have someone to have a power of attorney and they have someone who comes in on their behalf to help them.

Okay. If that power of attorney doesn’t have everything I need in it to be able to, to really affect a good outcome for [00:16:00] that person. That can be problematic. And if they don’t have the capacity to do a new one, then we’re kind of out of luck. In our options for helping that person pay for their care and not lose everything become narrowed.

So that part of estate planning is very important. Your documents for when you’re alive, your powers of attorney, HIPAA authorizations. All of that needs to be really good and thorough. and I’ll talk more about that when we’re actually kind of into, the seminar. But those documents are very important for couples.

Not only are those important, but also when you’re planning for how do you protect some assets for a surviving spouse in Washington state, we have some very, very, very useful ways that couples can protect the assets. And. That is done primarily through their estate planning, not just powers of attorney, but wills with a certain kind of trust, not a living trust.

That, again, I get into more detail when we sit down for the whole seminar, but [00:17:00] that for couples is also very important. So we have kind of this dual thing when you’re alive and when you pass away and leave someone behind. All of that is important to protecting assets for someone who’s going to need long-term care and allowing us to help them get that care.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:17:14] something that I was thinking about is it’s, and I kind of wrestle with this with my clients, is we never know if we’re going to have a long-term care event. So in a lot of ways, it’s not like planning for death. We do, well, you know, we do know we’re going to die. So the estate planning needs to be done for that.

Of course, that inevitability of course. But we never know if we’re going to have an a long-term care event. So could planning for this be. Considered a waste of time or a waste of money or energy or you know, when, when does someone want to start to plan for this? Because I mean. I guess what I’m driving at is that we can be healthy like I am today.

There’s no reason in the world I would think I’m going to have a long-term care event anytime soon. [00:18:00] So do I need to start planning for that possibility today or is that something that I would want to start planning for if if myself or my spouse exhibited symptoms or something was going wrong and we were starting to get clued in that we might need this sooner than later. When’s the right time to plan?

Liz Wallace, Attorney: So it’s never too early and it’s also never too late. Okay. The kinds of planning vary by where you are in that, in that scenario. and it’s never a waste of time. What I would say is you want to make sure that the kind of planning you’re doing makes sense for your situation.

Again, this is why it’s important to have an individualized consultation and talk with someone who does this stuff all the time. There. You know, there’s long-term care insurance. For example, for some people, long-term care insurance may be affordable. It may be something that is a good investment for that person.

For someone else who maybe has, a lot of healthcare [00:19:00] issues that is going to make that insurance really, really expensive. Even if they get it early in life, that may not be the best route for them. And we might want to do some different kind of planning. It’s never a waste. We are now at the point we’re about one third of Americans require some kind of long-term care in their life.

People are living a lot longer and long-term care is much more expensive. So we are, we are living longer with more needs for care. So doing planning ahead is almost never wasteful. there may be some kinds of planning that make more sense for people, and you always want to make sure that when you’re looking at planning, is it something that makes financial sense, of course, has to be a part of it.

The kind of estate planning that is done by me or people like me is, you know, that’s a one time cost rather than an ongoing cost. And it may be slightly more expensive than. Traditional estate planning, but it also has all of these built in, you know, ability to [00:20:00] protect people in a lot of different circumstances.

We don’t just say, okay, well, only in this circumstance are we going to plan ahead. I try to be as flexible and build in as many contingencies as possible in someone’s estate planning. That way they don’t have to have it redone. They might not be able to have it redone later. And so again, this is why I say it’s never too early.

It’s also never too late. We’re never in a position where we can’t do anything to protect the assets. so I would say definitely people who haven’t done this kind of planning yet should, should start now. I don’t think it’s ever a waste of time, though. There may be certain pieces of it that not everybody should utilize.


Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: So I, I’m sure you’ve kind of hit on this, but I want to be a little more clear. So what would, what would you say are some of the key risks for not having proper planning in place? So we talk about protecting our nest egg. We talk about paying for long-term care. So what are the risks? Risks to not doing proper planning in advance.

Liz Wallace, Attorney:  [00:21:00] So long-term care courses. The biggest threat to most everyone’s nest egg at this point to begin, and people are living longer and it’s more expensive. And so not doing any kind of planning. even if you may eventually qualify for the state to help you pay for your care, through Medicaid or, or some other program.

In order to qualify for that, you have to spend all your money first. And so if you didn’t do any planning ahead of time where we have some other options besides just spending it all on care, the problem isn’t that you spent your money to get yourself the care you need. That’s an important thing for anyone and in the point of any of this plannings to make sure that the people who need the care get it.

The problem comes when. You don’t do planning ahead of time, you spend everything and then when you are on Medicaid or another state program, you don’t have anything to pay for the pay for other things because all of your, all of your income has participated towards your cost of care. [00:22:00] And then you get to keep about $70 a month.

And then if you need a haircut, if you need a new clothes, if you want to go out to dinner with your family, all of those things have to come out of this $70 a month. And you don’t have any other funds, and so not doing any kind of planning ahead of time means that that you really will lose everything.

And in long-term care, it really is that biggest risk. There are some other risks that involve when you pass away and your property not going where you want it to go. One of those risks is that, again, you don’t do, you don’t do any planning, and maybe you have, people that you don’t want family members.

You don’t want to get some of your property, but they have a legal right. Then if you don’t plan the state’s gonna plan for you, where your property goes, they’re going to tell you, okay, when you die, this is who gets your property in these percentages and these, these proportions. and I also talked a little bit already about unintentional disinheriting of your kids.

If you don’t do some planning, and you just leave everything directly to your [00:23:00] spouse and your spouse, not intentionally, usually they get remarried later and not do planning of their own, and then they die before their new spouse and their new spouse’s, children end up getting all of the property. That should have gone to your kids.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:23:14] That’s some really long-term thinking and planning

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:23:18] and we can plan to avoid all of that stuff. There’s, you know, there’s some other scenarios too. we can do the right kind of planning, can protect you from all of those scenarios.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:23:28] Okay. So that kind of leads me to one of my last questions is what are the key steps that people should take to protect

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:23:34] themselves and their loved ones?

First and foremost, go take your estate planning documents if you have them. And if you don’t have them, go and talk to an elder law attorney. About the kind of planning that you can do ahead of time and if it makes sense for you financially. Also talk to your financial advisor about, not only planning on what you should do with [00:24:00] your money to make sure that there’s enough.

there later and what kind of investments you should do, but also whether or not you should look at long-term care insurance. I generally send someone, I don’t answer that question for them. I send them to their financial planner and say, talk to this person and see what makes the most financial sense for you.

It’s, it’s a good investment if you can afford it and if it doesn’t break your bank now. So I would say that those are the two most important things. Talk to a lawyer, the elder law attorney, preferably, and talk to your financial advisor and plan together. And try to get a team approach. that’s another thing that I think is, is really, really beneficial.

Every elder law attorney I know, wants to work with your financial planner. They want to talk to them. They want to make that a team approach so everyone’s on the same page and making sure that, that we’re all taking care of people’s futures.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:24:50] Exactly. And I would, Echo that statement. You know, that’s definitely part of what I do. I think of myself as that central person to my

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:24:57] client’s life because you don’t [00:25:00] know everything about them like I do.  you’re the estate planning attorney. We bring you in to do this piece of it. But that’s my job is to know from a very high level overview look of everything that’s going on with their financial lives and how they all work together to coordinate so that we can have the most successful outcome and your piece is one piece, you know, there’s one very important piece, so that coordination with a financial advisor. I think is a great idea. You know, I’m a financial advisor. I, I believe in that. For sure. So fantastic. so again, I wanna reiterate May 28, 2020 5:15 register on my website it’s going to be, , very packed with a lot of information that people can take away actionable information, actionable steps to start making sure your financial house is in order and your estate planning is as to, so, Liz, where can people find you and connect with you?

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:25:58] So we have, our [00:26:00] website, which is And you can always contact us by phone or text at (509) 530-2380. anyone who has questions can email me directly. And my email is

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:26:19] Okay. Go ahead and spell that. domain .

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:26:21] our website is just

Agile Elder Law, A G I L E E L D E R L A W and then my email is Liz, So that’s L. A. W. F. I. R. M. E. A. S. T. dot com.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:26:41] All right. Yeah, cause it’s, it’s audio and visual too. So I’ll try to, I’ll put links into this on my website so the links will be easy to click on.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:26:50] We’re also on Facebook and on Twitter and on Instagram, so we can be on any of those places.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:26:55] Okay. And I’m will link to all of those as best I can as well. So, Liz, thank you so [00:27:00] much. One last, question. I like to try to get, you know, is there a key piece of advice that you would give to somebody who’s kind of considering this step in their financial planning process? Making sure their estate is in order, key piece of advice for them?

Liz Wallace, Attorney: Again, my key piece of advice is it’s never too early and. It’s never too late. So go and talk to somebody. find out where you are on things and it makes sure that it’s whoever you talk to is really tailoring that specifically to you. And not giving you a one size fits all answer to estate planning because that’s not going to be.

The best route for you. Okay.

Angie Furubotten-LaRosee, CFP®: [00:27:38] Fantastic. Well, Liz, thank you so much for jumping on today and, talking about, some of these very important pieces that have to do with both the state planning in general, but then also how it relates to long-term care and, you know, not going broke in the process. So thank you very much for joining me.

Liz Wallace, Attorney: [00:27:57] Thank you Angie.

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